Quote:
Originally Posted by cave
unless you can't prove i'm not God, i suggest you don't post here anymore.
|
You are not god because you are contingent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by juvenilepunk
Who says there would be chaos around the world. Why is not possible for everyone to be atheists and live in a decent society?
|
I just explained why there would be chaos around the world.
The argument was that "religion is bad and controls people with fear. Therefore the world is better without religion."
If religion or our government has to use fear to control us then that is based on the widely famous philosophy of Thomas Hobbes. It goes to say that humans need to be controlled by fear because they are evil by nature. The only way to control evil is with fear of a higher power. If we are indeed being control by the fear of breaking laws and of going to hell then it means we are controlled by fear so we are evil by nature. So a world without fear would mean a world of total evil and chaos.
That means that everything in the world is evil, controlled by evil resulting in good (evil + evil = good). Or that the world is good, controlled by good with the possibility of evil occurring (good + good = evil).
I prefer to believe in the second idea; that the world is good and humans are good. That we are born as a blank slate (rasa tabula) and we have the possibility to learn evil. That is how evil exists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cave
blind christians are cute, prove to me with some sort of evidence, anything real that there is infact a God exactly as he is described.
now you'll say prove to me there isn't?
|
Indeed, indeed. You are right; no one can prove or disprove that God exists. But there is 'evidence' from both sides. The strongest evidence I can provide to sway that God does exist is greater than science. It is based on the simple logic of
reason. Let's begin.
So the first and foremost reasons on why a god should exist is simple. Let's look at the first cause and motion arguments. Nothing in our material world can be actual and be potential at the same time. Therefore nothing can put itself into motion. Something has to put something else in motion, a chain effect some might say. This can not extend to infinity because then nothing would exist (will be argued below). Thus there must be a first mover, something that put everything into motion and was put into motion by nothing else because it has always existed. This divine first motion we know as God. This argument is very similar to the first cause argument. Since nothing can cause itself. However, causes act as a series. Without a first cause everything would not exist in that series. Blah blah (same as above).
The next reasoning is sometimes hard to understand so I'll try to make it as clear as possible. We live in the real world with four dimensions. If we were to believe that we live in an infinite universe (unlimited space and time) were everything is possible then it is possible for nothing to be possible. If nothing is possible then nothing comes from nothing and nothing will exist and the universe will no longer be infinite. Since all things we know are contingent (have the ability to exist and not exist) then this is possible. So if nothing were to exist there would be nothing to bring back contingency. Therefore, nothing would exist now. But we exist now so it is obvious that not everything is contingent. Thus, something exists of its own necessity that has always existed over contingency make the existence possible. (This should help understand the first argument more).
The most common argument, the famous argument from design, that most people like to use is the simplest to understand. Everything that exists has a design; the laws of nature and science and physics.. ect. Intelligence and knowledge of this kind is not manifested/created from nothing, it is 'designed' or 'learned from' an already existing knowledge. Since things that exist do not have intelligence like humans they must be directed to a goal or an end by something else (some may call this fate). Thus, some intelligent being has always existed that directs or influences design/knowledge/intelligence.
My last point is the argument of perfection. There is a gradation to be found in all things; hotter or colder, older or younger, taller or shorter... ect. There exists a maximum and minimum for all gradations. Since there exists some good, some noble, some bad and some evil we can arrive at the idea that there is a ultimate good and an ultimate bad. Imperfection and perfection. The thing that exists that is the maximum good, that is perfect, is God.
Phew. Now I'm out of breath. You should have learned all this philosophy and reasoning at school (if you go to school). Its important to study serious academic issues like these with full respect. If you are the person who just picks a side without consulting the values and proofs from either side then shame on you for following blindly.